Slayix312 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

"we have the best tactics when it comes to an traditional dogfight." lol the Canadian's are not even close to being the best dog-fighter's. That would be the Israeli's actually.

UltitmateCritias400 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Reason I said that one of my cousins is a f 22 pilot and he even said take you so far. He just said to me imagine canada has f22s theyll beat us probaly. and some of thier top guns are trained by us we have the best tactics when it comes to an traditional dogfight. Eventhogh the chanes of us getting f 22 are slim to none.

em745aa (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

-"stealth will only take you so far" -"it will only take 3 canadian fighter pilots to take on a raptor" You might want to read these forum threads. Pretty much debunks what you just said: f-16.n et/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10985 f-16.n et/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=771&start=120 (VprWzl)

UltitmateCritias400 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I agree with realdennis79 and I also know that because Ive been doing a little research and stealth will only take you so far. And its the guy at the stick. I dont see any special about it most advanced true. When it comes to a traditional dogfight it will only take 3 canadian fighter pilots to take on a raptor. Reason is the better training. And Tactics. I love the F22

realdennis79 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Lock down first. Shoot first. Kill first. It's the F-22's roll. Clear out enemy threat in air. In near future, it will have air to ground capability as well. Then it will clear out enemy radars on the ground. After F-22 completes above tasks. Its advanced radar and low RCS will help it to perform reconnaissance behind enemy line.

realdennis79 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

F-22 is stealth jet which means unless there is a way to dictact it. F-22 will see an advasary earlier. Therefore, it will almost every time have an advantage in Angle of Attack. For example: A F-22 dictacts SU-37 first. Performs air manuvering. Lock down the target. Shoot an AMRAAM. Even somehow Su-37 evade the missile, it already looses its speed while evading the missile. F-22 will shoot another missile. Got it? If i'm the F-22 pilot, I wouldn't enagege the enemy within visual range

realdennis79 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I dont understan why some of folks keep talking about theoratical top speed. do you think in every combat situation air planes go for maximum speed? If pilots want to dog fight, alomst every fighter jets engage around mach 1 within visual range. Would you go for max speed for 30 to 40 mins in combat situation or mach 1.5 for 3 hours? A/B will be used with limitation.

shbycbra427 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Yeah but you didn't really answer my question about drag at really high speeds. Everything you said is pretty obvious but it doesn't really address the question.

em745aa (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

-"By the time you get up to mach 2.5, drag will depend mainly on your mach number" Drag is drag. The only point in all of this is that the F-15's "mythical" Mach 2.5+ top speed can only be achieved in an ultra clean condition (without the sidewinder racks even!). The Raptor carries its 8 missiles internally. So unlike the F-15, its aerodynamics are unaffected. Weight isn't an issue here. If the Raptor can achieve Mach 2.4+, then it can do so WITH a missile load. THAT's the point.

shbycbra427 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I don't know for sure what happens to drag by the time you get way above the speed of sound. Some wierd things happen that may or may not make weight a factor but I severely doubt that it does. Any mach 2 or 2.5 would definately fit into this area though. Do you know what happens by any chance?